Samvadadhvam: What is Our Aim (Contd...)

Monday, July 18, 2005

What is Our Aim (Contd...)

My reply to Narendra's Last comment on this topic posted before, was very lengthy, So I've madeit a new post.

Regarding the ABPS Resolution..
I dont Understand the idea behind what ABPS decides, that some how seemed irrelavent to me in today's context. that apart,
1. How does a normal swayamsevak know what he is doing? Where is the Direction for a Swayamsevak? I feel we are Directionless. Show me the Direction...

"One of the biggest achivement is the change in Hindu mindset!"
I know that this ia a factor of Parama Vaibhava, may be 5 % of it... Tell me, How has this helped our country grow as a nation in the globe?What about the other 95 %?

"Assume Sangh was not there and only Hindu Maha Sabha or Arya Samaj were to be there and what would have happened!?"
This is typical "nann Bitre Illa" attitude...which I dont agree...Our nation since ages, has faced so many trials and Tribulations but There wasn't a time when we had no one to stand up for it...
If not Sangha, there would have been some one else...I have all the respect in the world for Dr.ji, Guruji, but those at the realm today...I dont want to comment...

"Even bringing BJP to power in a country "...
Who ???We??? If sangha thinks so...then nobody can help Sangha...Come on Narendra, BJP might be Sangha's Kid and may go along with Same ideology, But to Claim that It was RSS "ALONE" which brought BJP to Power is ridiculous...Even Sangha might not accept that they are "KingMakers". I strongly feel they are not...

"For Economic Stability, Sangh has started a separate organization and they have started proposing "Hindu Economics"."
Nowadays, for each national Issue there is an Organisation Inspired by sangha, and Sangha Has totally lost track of what It is supposed to do..."OutSourcing Issues"..Can I call it...No of Sangha Preritha Organizations may Even outNumber the number of shakhas we have in the whole country...

Yes, we have started with "Grama Vikas" which has started giving fruits. This is definitely a step towards "Sarvangeena Unnati". Even Gandhiji's "Grama Swarajya" plan was the same, bot nobody in Congress pursued it!
This like treating a person who urgently needs a Bypass Surgery to survive for a Common Cold he has!

But, whatever we have achieved is very little compared to what has to be still done.

"whatever we have achieved" - What have we?
"what has to be still done." - What?

For that, we need "Some people who can give FULL TIME, more people who can give MORE TIME"
"that" - What?

I think unless we get a Direction, there is not much Sangha Can do...My conclusion is that Sangha is Currently Directionless....

I once again mention that these question that I have posted is just to know what We are doing in Sangha. My heart says Sangha can do miracles for the country, but I want to convince my mind too, that Sangha Can.Please Advise

17 Comments:

At 7/19/2005 10:59:00 am, Narendra Kumar said…

1. I feel we are Directionless. Show me the Direction.....
Sangh is going in the same direction since its inception.
It is the direction of "Sanskar" and "Sanghatan".
I don't see any confusion in this.

2. What about the other 95 %?
I don't know if it 95% or 99%!
Till today Sangh has achieved something.
The remaining (95 or 99%) has to be achieved by you and me.
This is like asking "how many hours does it take to go to Mysore?"
Everything depends on the vehicle and the driver.
Our vehicle is Sangh. To keep it in good condition is our responsibility.
If it is not in good condition or if it is giving problems, then it is "I" who has to be blamed.

3. This is typical "nann Bitre Illa" attitude.....
If I had told this, then it would have become self-flattery or as you have put it "nanna bitre illa" attitude!
But, many people outside Sangh have expressed this during variou times.
As you rightly said, if not Sangh somebody would have done it.
But, indirectly you are accepting that Sangh has done this:-)
And history is an open book and all of us know about the last 100 years history of Bharath.
So, feel free to tell me, "who has achieved more than what Sangh has done!?"

4. Even Sangha might not accept that they are "KingMakers"
No comments:-))

5. No of Sangha Preritha Organizations may Even outNumber the number of shakhas
You have heard this so many times.
Sangh is like a powerhouse. We keep on producing power (karyakartas)
Power production will be justified only when it is utilised outside like houses, industry and agriculture.
So, Sangh expects its karyakarta's to promote sangh ideology of "Hindu Sanghatan" and "Sanskar" in various different fields.
Only then, we can say that Sangh work was useful.
But, Sangh has to keep its concentration on building new karyakartas.
And that is the only thing Sangh does.

6. This like treating a person who urgently needs a Bypass Surgery to survive for a Common Cold he has!
I don't understand what you mean by this.
Our country is not in a stage where we need a "bypass Surgery"!
Between "Urgent" and "Important" work, always "Urgent" work gets priority.
So, the "Important" work gets neglected and becomes "Urgent" later.
If we plan properly, no work can become "Urgent".
Gram Vikas is "Important" work and Sangh is doing it according to the plan only.
And for doing this nothing else is neglected.
And this also is being done by swayamsevaks, not Sangh.

7. "whatever we have achieved" - What have we? "what has to be still done." - What?
If you close your eyes nothing will be seen.
If you open it, then many things can be seen.
Everything is in the way, you look at it.
This is like telling a half cup of milk as "Half Full" or "Half Empty".
Both are true, but has got lot of difference in the attitude.

8. For that, we need "Some people who can give FULL TIME, more people who can give MORE TIME": "that" - What?
"that" stands for Sangh work.
If you can give "SOME TIME" or "MORE TIME", then as you said Sangh can really do miracles:-)

Kishan, I think the big mistake you are doing is that, when you say Sangh, you are keeping yourselves outside.
Don't get detached. Get attached, be part of the Sangh and think of a solution.
Sangh is not a closed organizations. It is open and open for criticisms and experiments.
The only pre-condition is that, it has to be constructive.
If you feel something is wrong, then you are free to correct it.
If you still feel that WE don't have direction, then please give US a direction. But, you have to start first and others will follow you.

Hope Karthik and Sudarshan can add more.

-Narendra
At 7/19/2005 12:31:00 pm, Kishan said…

Will comment after others comment!
At 7/25/2005 02:59:00 pm, Kishan said…

Abhi,
It would be great if You can introduce yourself, not that It matters. But thought it would be better.I will leave that To you.
At 7/25/2005 03:09:00 pm, Kishan said…

Abhi,
I know what Sangha has Done in last 7 decdes and If Ask about it know, I will get hundreds of excerpts straight from the book "RSS - A Vision In Action" !

Please Answer My Question straight to the point, No RSS way of talking something else other than answering to point please...!

1. What India Needs at this point of Time?
2. Does RSS think that it needs to do something to cater to the needs of the country?
3. If You answer the above two questions, What is RSS doing in that direction?
4. Tell me what I should do to help the country grow?

Regards
Kishan
At 7/25/2005 03:13:00 pm, Kishan said…

regarding Ram Madhav's Blog, Why isn't the press conferences working these days or what???
At 7/25/2005 03:23:00 pm, Kishan said…

Sorry All,

For making multiple posts!

Abhi,
Ask Me what Shakhe Can Do, I can explain you better than any one else,
Ask me what Sangha Did in last 80 years I will explain it to you,
Ask me how sangha transforms(rather transformed, I have lost the hope that It can now) ppl, I will show You live examples...

But tell me only one thing, In which Direction it is moving now,
Explain me how relavent the ABPS resoulutions are relavent to the present day need of the country./

What Drji did was very relevant to the soceity that day!What Guruji did was very relavent to the soceity that day...
Tell the relavence of Sangha in today's Soceity.Come On Explain!

Note: (Relavent = relevant)
At 7/25/2005 07:56:00 pm, Anonymous said…

Kishan,
Narendra has already answered all your questions. I am just adding to it.
1. What India Needs at this point of Time?
- India needs several selfless youth who can think about problems faced by the society and work towards resolving those.
2. Does RSS think that it needs to do something to cater to the needs of the country?
Yes. 100%. That's why there are so many people who are sparing their time, energy and money.
3. If You answer the above two questions, What is RSS doing in that direction?
Its motivating thousands of youth to think about social problems and work towards the solution. Its difficult to measure what these motivated people doing in different fields, but they are really making a difference.

4. Tell me what I should do to help the country grow?
Really upto you ;-)
Let me give you two step approach:
Step1: Identify the top most concern that is bothering you. This could be some social issue that you can do something about it.
Step2: Do something to resolve it immediately. Start from today !!!

PS: It takes several years to realize and appreciate Sangh's process. Shakha activities are like a "Prayoga Shala" where in you will be experimenting on 'yourself' every minute.
I think there is a basic problem in understanding these concepts. Let me list down 3 kinds of swayamsevaks that come in contact with the sangh. There are more, but just for the clarity:
1. Those who understand the Sangh's priciple and who have internalized some of the concepts. These swayamsevaks take "Samskara" as more important concept and life long they get involved in Shakha related activities.
They motivate several people, they create leaders, but they themselves won't get involved in any other social activities. There mission is to create more and more swayamsevaks and to strengthen the organization.
2. Those who understand the Sangh's principle and who have internalized some of the concepts. These swayamsevaks are not interested in Shakha activities and they always would like to involve directly in some social issues.
These are the people who will take up social issues and try to resolve them. Any social activity including seva is result of such people. (They may not go to Shakha or any of the functions).
3. Those who do not understand Sangh's principle and quit. They continue to lead life as if they were never swayamsevaks.

Type1 and Type2 are good paths depending on the individual interests.
At 7/27/2005 05:07:00 pm, Kishan said…

sudarshan and narendra,
Thanks for the responses, Both of Your answers are acceptable to me.
I am convinced that sangha Can Do Something. But My Question is, "is SanghaDoing something". If yes in what Direction?

1. Do You agree with me if I say Shakha count have gone down, in the last 3 years especially?

2. if You agree, can you tell me why?

3. If I say Shakha Count has gone down because of neglect of Shakhas in the top level. Will you agree or not? Please Substantiate.

Thats was About Shakha Quantity.

Now Coming to Shakha Quality,

1. What is the saraSari of the Shakhas These Days?

2. Do You agree that Sarasari has gone down, because Sangha is now Unable to attract young people to shakhas, as it used to before.

3. Do You agree if I say Bangalore Mahanagara, For example, didnt have enough pravasa to the shakhas in All levels which caused the Shakhas to Crumble Qualitatively and Quantitaively.

4. Do you agree if say that there was lack of pravasas, was caused beacause, each level of the karyakarthas were under pressure to deliver for
1. Dec 14 patha Sanchalana :
2. Rashtra Jaagarana Abhiyaana :
3. Samarasatha Sangama
etc etc and the List goes on....which occured almost every year.

5. Do You agree if I say that the basic Shakha Which was the heart beat of Sangha was neglected, when It needed the attention most. The time when Internet, video Games cartoon channels were available to the Children easily, Sangha Should have given more concentration towards making Shakhe more attractive, But sangha Was busy with other activities. Answer to this lies not in substantiating why the other activities were necessary but why we neglected the basic Shakhe? The question the Decesion makers should put to themselves is why they compromised on the basic pillar of Sangha, the Shakha?

Now where Should Samskara Come from. How will it reach the kids. We have missed a whole new generation of Swayam Sevaks. Whilst I respect the fact that all varga of the Soceity are equally important for the country's development, I feel that the middle class which is the most important aspect of the soceity . The Seva Basthi were always easy to lure to the Shakhas, The rich never turned up to the Shakhas. It was the middle class which was the toughest to bring them to Shakha. I challenge you to take me to 1 Such Shakha in Entire bangalore, where we dont take the help of Seva basthi to fill the Shakha Count. To be precise an Ajaya Shakhe, Jayanagar kind of Shakhe, where the sarasari is around 15- 20 children, with a proper mUshi, who grew as a mUshi in that shakhe. You tell me the Date, time and Place, I will be there.
At 7/27/2005 05:39:00 pm, Karthik CS said…

allappa Kishan... I dont understand one thing.. What's your point?

I agree with all the things you are trying to say.. U are listing the problems that we have within the org and incapabality of the karryakarthas in it.. and its appreciated that we have discovered our shortcomes. Thats the first step to find the solution. But, the subesequent steps involves corrective actions to make them correct right?? Or... you are trying to prove the irrelevance of sangha ?? Please explain your motive..
At 7/27/2005 05:52:00 pm, Kishan said…

I am trying to point out the fact that Sangha By neglecting its roots is becoming irrelevant to the todays soceity antha heltha Idhini....

Desha Needs samaskarayutha prajegaLu - Agreed

Sangha has the potential to make Such people and its is Sangha Which Is doing it- Agreed

Sangha was doing that till very recently - Agreed

Sangha Was relevant - Agreed

My Point is
Nowadays, the making of such Samskaara is disappearing becoz sangha is not foccussed on it.

Therby Sangha is doing more things which are not relevant to todays Soceity, So I asked the Question to Know What we are doing and In What Direction we are moving...
At 7/27/2005 06:51:00 pm, Anonymous said…

Kishan,
Looks like you agree with Sangh's ideology and Shakha process and you have strong concern about the execution. Even today, Shakha is the main focus of Sangh. If we have failed to focus then we need to refocus and elders constantly remind us about that even today.
Jump into action and run a shakha with Samskara as a focus. You will make a difference at least in one shakha. Gradually you can increase your influence to the whole Mahanagar. This kind of fire in the heart has motivated several people to become Pracharaks. I think you are going in that way ;-).
At 7/27/2005 06:58:00 pm, Kishan said…

Illa Ashtondhella Enu Illa,
All I need is a good Shakhe where in I can Re-Charge my Batteries....
At 7/28/2005 03:01:00 pm, Narendra Kumar said…

Kishan,

If you are very strongly feeling that, Sangh has lost focus and direction and that needs to be corrected......you are trying to put that responsibility on others shoulders!
As Sudarshan has rightly pointed out, why don't you take the responsibility of one Shaka and make it perfect?
Nobody will stop you from doing that.
If anybody from Sangh stops or interferes in doing this, I will stand in their way.
So, now ball is in your court.
You have to decide, how you will do it and when you will do it.
At 7/28/2005 03:02:00 pm, Narendra Kumar said…

But, I am still wondering, who that Abhi is?
His comments were good:-)
At 7/28/2005 04:11:00 pm, Kishan said…

"But, I am still wondering, who that Abhi is?"

me too!!
At 7/28/2005 04:46:00 pm, Narendra Kumar said…

Kishan,

Did you check my comments in "RSS Rescues Christians"?
And did you get my mail regarding mail notification of posts?

-Narendra
At 8/08/2005 02:35:00 pm, Narendra Kumar said…

Thanks Abhi for the introduction.
I am very happy to know that you are associated with HSS in USA.
But, how did you come to know of this blog?

-Narendra

Samvadadhvam

Monday, July 18, 2005

What is Our Aim (Contd...)

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